Dad,

The problem is that you and I both think we’ve found truth, but we don’t seem to agree on it. So, ultimately, yes, our goal is to find truth. But in order to do that, we do first need to understand each other’s current view of truth. Without this understanding we just get stuck at the point of each of us thinking we’re right and the other is wrong.

You seem surprised that I “as much as declared that I can’t decide what is the best thing to do about health care…”, but this is what I’ve been saying all along. My original reason for starting this conversation was not to convince anyone that the liberal agenda was the right one, or that reform proposals by Obama or Congress would be the best thing. What I have wanted in this whole health care debate is good information to help me make my decisions, as opposed to the reactionary rhetoric that has come from many media sources and forwarded emails. I understand that conservatives are saying the government should stay out of it and let the market fix the problems. I’m willing to believe this, but I don’t understand how that will work. You said that doing nothing would be better than what is being proposed right now, although doing nothing is not what you would choose. Can you tell me what you would choose to do to address the problems in our health care system, besides simply telling the government to stay out of it? Earlier you mentioned that reform needs to allow competition between insurance companies. I’m pretty sure I agree with this. Could you help me understand this better?

You said you were trying to decipher what I believe. Regarding the health care issue, I feel I can now say that I oppose the current legislation coming through Congress. I have only come to that conclusion in the last week or so, and what led me to this point is what I learned from an NPR program that aired this month, a program that finally gave me some of the good information I’ve been looking for. October 11 and 18, NPR’s This American Life devoted two hours to explaining some of the problems with our health care system. They didn’t talk about the current bill, they didn’t propose any kind of solution. The purpose was not to support or oppose any political party or agenda. The purpose was simply to explain how complicated the system is.

I knew our system was broken, but I wanted to understand how and why it was broken so I could figure out whether or not the current legislation would address the real issues. I now have a better understanding of why health care costs are so high, why insurance premiums keep going up, why insurance companies sometimes drop customers leaving them without insurance, and I can say with more confidence that I don’t believe current proposed health care legislation will fix the real problems. I now understand what David Brooks was saying in this article that I linked to in an earlier post. I do think there may still be a need for some kind of government intervention, just not what is currently being proposed.

So, that’s where I am on that. I still have a lot more to say on a couple of broader topics, one being the role of the Church and the role of government in caring for the poor, the second being the way the public discussion about current political topics has gone and the way conservative Christians have contributed to that discussion. I have probably said enough for today, so I’m sure I will get the chance to address these other topics as we discuss the Grand Inquisitor, which I hope to write about soon.

Our Grand Communicator

Dear Mindy: Here I am on a Sunday afternoon trying to decifer what you believe and where you are. Your last post as much as declared that you can't decide what is the best thing to do about health care unless you see a full blown proposal from conservatives. That does tell me a lot. Actually, if you listen, there are many voices decrying the intrusion of government into this major part of our lives, and pleading to let the private sector continue to what it does best, that is make it better at the least cost (for everyone). Doing nothing, although not what I would choose right now, is far better than what is being proposed. For the time being, Barry and friends are steamrolling a bill through that must be so toxic, they can't afford to let the representatives have as much as 72 hours to look it over before voting. They have also changed the locks on the committee rooms so someone from the minority party doesn't barge in. Believe it. Conservatives have their hands full right now throwing a wrench in the gears of the most far reaching and damaging social legislation in the history of our fair nation.

You like the President's "clear and concise" way of communicating in a constructive, rather than critical way of others ideas. I am reminded of Charles Krauthammer's remarks that we need to watch what he does rather than what he says. They are two different things, sad to say. I wouldn't classify his health care reform, HR3200 that is 1506 pages long, as clear and concise. His speeches are one thing, the reality is a 1500 page bill. What is his clear and concise response to General McCrystal? Still dithering on a request for more troops that is in line with his campaign promise to clean up Afganistan.

You want to now go to the church's role in dealing with poverty. We (I) have been dealing with that all along. The government's place will be to force the redistribution of wealth to those with less, and I am against that. Does that label me one with selfish interests because I have more than some? I reject it. The church's role is to facilitate the commands of Christ to give, help, enable, disciple, comfort. It is not the role of the State. I have purchased the book, "The Hole in Our Gospel" and am looking forward to it. In the meantime, "The Grand Inquisitor" is speaking to a reincarnated but silent Christ about the three temptations. For purposes of this discussion, most of the material is in the one about turning stones into bread, to wit;

"...for never was there anything more unbearable to the human race than personal freedom! Dost Thou see these stones in the desolate and glaring wilderness? Command that these stones be made bread - and mankind will run after Thee, obedient and grateful like a herd of cattle."
and, "...for where is there freedom of choice where men are bribed with bread?" He is speaking in arrogance about how the church has come to conduct itself. Pretty descriptive of mankind, whether Church or State doing the bribing.

One last thing. Because I love you and you are my daughter, I want to understand you and is a major reason I'm doing this. However, in a dialogue truly pursuing the truth, whether we understand each other is second to whether we find the truth. The good news is, when we find the truth, we will understand each other better.
Love,
Dad

The Role of the Church

Dad,

Thanks for the suggestion. I already have the Brothers Karamazov (we read it a couple years ago in our book club), so if it’s not too late to cancel your order, you might not need to get a copy—unless the Grand Inquisitor published by itself includes some extra commentary that would be helpful. I will definitely read it again, since it has been a while, and since the last time I was reading it with a different approach than I will be this time.

I looked up John Boehner’s website, and I still don’t see any suggestions for how to fix the problems in our health care system. He is clearly an opponent of big government and there are some articles on his site that address the problems with the health care bills proposed by Democrats in Congress. But I couldn’t find a proposal by him to address health care. You mentioned allowing competition among insurance companies—what would this look like? Has Boehner proposed something that would do this?

A month or so ago President Obama gave a speech in which he outlined his suggestions for what should go in a health care reform bill. Whether you agree with any of his suggestions or believe anything he says, I still appreciated that he clearly communicated these ideas in a way that I could understand. I didn’t agree with all of it and I think he left some things out, but it was clear and concise and, for the most part, constructive rather than critical of others’ ideas. I want to hear the same kind of speech, or see in writing the same kinds of suggestions, by a conservative. You’re right, the proposals of John Boehner and others like him haven’t gotten much play. If there are other, better ideas for fixing this problem than the ones the Democrats are suggesting, I want to understand them. But I can’t find them.

Much of our conversation has been about the free market system and the role of government. We haven’t talked much yet about the role of the Church in dealing with poverty. Unfortunately, the Church does not exist in isolation from government or free markets. Each one has an influence on both of the others. I think the two books I’m interested in reading will address this, using lots of Scripture to put things in perspective. I actually hope you will be interested enough to eventually read both books, (as I know I will), but for now why don’t you pick? Both of them are quite a bit longer than the Grand Inquisitor (sorry!).

The first is Rich Christians in an Age of Hunger (first published in 1978, updated every few years, most recently in 2005). It is broken up into chapters and short, easy to read sections with intriguing titles such as “Rationalizing our Affluence” “Is God a Marxist?” and “A Biblical Attitude toward Poverty and Wealth.”

The other is The Hole in Our Gospel. I heard the author, Richard Stearns, on Midday Connection a few months ago, and he has an amazing story. He was the CEO of Lenox, Inc., taking his faith seriously by attending church, giving generously, witnessing to his peers and even encouraging Bible studies to form and grow within his company. Through an interesting series of events he came to realize there was a major piece missing from his faith. I think the book is partly the story of how he came to be president of World Vision, and partly an explanation of the major paradigm shift that took place regarding his understanding of the Gospel.

Because the books are so long, I’m not sure if you want to take them by chapter, and perhaps share responses to them on the blog? Or we could just read the whole thing and share our thoughts afterward. We could start with the Grand Inquisitor, since it’s shorter and we both have it already.

Thanks for being willing to read one of these books with me—I know you’re busy, and I appreciate so much that you want to understand where I’m coming from. It means a lot to me.

Mindy

Reading List

The laws you mentioned did indeed change society for the better. They had to do with how we relate as persons however, not how we pay for things.

One of the reform needs is to allow competition between insurance companies that, guaranteed, would give more options to all of us, including the poor, reduce costs and probably better care. I can say that as a matter of faith, knowing how two different systems attack problems, that being the state, and the world of free enterprise commerce. These are all part of proposals by John Boehner and others. They don't get much play do they?

I will read a recommendation of yours. Just let me know. I recommend "The Grand Inquisitor" by Dostoevsky. I have a copy on order for you. It is actually section 5 of the "Brothers Karamazov that has been published separately because it is so popular.

God Bless You,
Dad

Request

Dad,

I don’t doubt that some of the entitlement programs of the New Deal and the Great Society did more harm than good. I have not argued that government intervention is the answer to the problem of poverty. I do, however, believe that the government has a role to play. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965 were part of Johnson’s Great Society. Before the Civil Rights Act, a large portion of our population could not work even though they wanted to, because employers often discriminated based on skin color when hiring workers. This kind of discrimination was protected by law. After an amazing, non-violent grass-roots movement whose leaders were usually Christians, the federal government stepped in. In that case I would say government involvement did a lot of good.

You asked for some specific ideas of how systemic injustice contributes to poverty, and what I would do to change those systems. Here is one simple example from the health care issue. We have a group health insurance plan through Mark’s work. If I go to the doctor, the doctor may charge my insurance company $300. But the insurance company may only “allow” $200. Someone who has an hourly wage job that doesn’t provide health insurance and can’t afford to buy their own (insurance rates are higher for individual plans than group plans) would have to pay the doctor $300. An individual doesn’t have the power that a large insurance company does to simply decide how much they are going to pay for health care services.

I don’t know the best answer to this particular problem. Obama’s health reform proposal suggests a health care exchange where individuals can find affordable health insurance options, including a possible public option. I don’t know if that would work. But it’s the only idea I’ve heard to address the problem. If conservatives have better ideas, I’d love to hear them. Could you recommend some conservative sources that are offering constructive ideas on improving our health care system?

There is a lot more to say about systemic injustice, poverty and what our response as Christians ought to be. There are two books I’ve been thinking about reading about this topic, written by people much more knowledgeable than I. Would you be willing to read one of them with me? From what I know of these books, I think either of them would help me communicate some of what I've been trying to say with this blog. Even if you didn’t agree with anything in the books, at least you would understand me better. You said in an earlier post that all you had to go on to know about me is what you think I am like, until I do or say something to change that. I’ve been trying to do that (although unsuccessfully, I’m afraid), but these books may help.
I would also be happy to read something at your suggestion. If you would like to pick something, my only requests would be that you pick something written by a Christian and that has a good foundation in Scripture. There is wisdom to be gained from people outside the church, but Scripture is something you and I have in common. I think if we make that our starting point, we will have a better chance of really understanding each other.
Let me know what you think…

Mindy

Repetition

Dear Mindy:
You are a teacher for sure! If your student doesn't answer the question the way you want, ask again. So here we go. Yes, I believe there are flaws in our economic, social and political systems that make it difficult if not impossible for poor people to get out of poverty, and I do think changing these systems is something Christians should be wrestling with. Why else would I be blogging with you these many weeks? Nevertheless, I may go in a different direction with the solutions than you might. In my view the more government gets involved in trying to solve a problem like the poor, the worse it becomes for the poor. The New Deal of Roosevelt, and the Great Society of Johnson did much to damage the plight of the poor and there is much data to support that. They were the greatest expansion of entitlement programs in our nations history, and B. Obama is about to top them all. As a recent past President has said, "the most feared sentence in the world is, 'Hello, I'm from the government, and I'm here to help you.' "

I would challenge you to get beyond the ideas of Social Justice and give me specific ways you believe our systems have "made it difficult if not impossible for poor people to get out of poverty." If we are to change the system, as you want to do, what would you change that would accomplish this?

Love,
Dad

Fixing Flawed Systems

Hmmm, I thought I just did explain what I mean by social justice, or at least the gist of it. Social, political and economic systems often have flaws that allow those with wealth and power to gain more wealth and power (or at least keep what they have), often at the expense of those without wealth and power. I see this as a justice issue, thinking of justice as “conformity to moral rightness in action or attitude.” (That definition was taken from www.dictionary.com, the American Heritage dictionary definition 2b.) I believe that as Christians, we should be working to conform those systems to line up with God’s pictures in Scripture of how His people should live. He clearly says over and over that caring for the poor is important (and in Deuteronomy 15:4 He goes as far as to tell His people “There should be no poor among you”). If those flawed systems contribute to keeping people poor, then I believe Christians should be working to change those systems. Like I said earlier, I don’t know what the answers are. I think Scripture offers us some principles and examples we should take into consideration, but working those things out in today’s world is complicated. I earnestly believe, however, that it is extremely important for Christians to be trying to figure out how to do that—for the sake of our own relationship to God, as well as for the sake of our witness in the world.

I hate to be repetitive, but I do want to ask the same questions again: Do you believe there are flaws in our economic, social and political systems that make it difficult, if not impossible, for poor people to get out of poverty? Do you think changing those systems (social justice, as I explained above), is something Christians should be wrestling with?