Mindy:
I have a lot to say on the matter of Social Justice, but you seem to be itching to tell me your understanding of Social Justice! So, what is it?
Dad
Sunday, September 27, 2009
Thursday, September 24, 2009
My Understanding of Social Justice
Dear Dad,
I am glad to know we agree that there are more reasons for poverty than that poor people just don’t want to work. Most of your comments since we started this discussion have stressed the idea that it does not help the poor, or anyone for that matter, to forcibly take money away from hard-working people in order to give something to people who haven’t worked for it. One of your main points, if not the main point, is that when honest, hard-working people build wealth only to have it taken away from them by the government in order to provide goods or services for people who have not worked hard to earn those things, then everyone loses. I understand this. I take seriously the passages you quoted from 2 Thess 3:10 and 1 Tim 5:8. But those two passages are not all the Bible has to say about economic justice.
I am glad to know we agree that there are more reasons for poverty than that poor people just don’t want to work. Most of your comments since we started this discussion have stressed the idea that it does not help the poor, or anyone for that matter, to forcibly take money away from hard-working people in order to give something to people who haven’t worked for it. One of your main points, if not the main point, is that when honest, hard-working people build wealth only to have it taken away from them by the government in order to provide goods or services for people who have not worked hard to earn those things, then everyone loses. I understand this. I take seriously the passages you quoted from 2 Thess 3:10 and 1 Tim 5:8. But those two passages are not all the Bible has to say about economic justice.
I agree that if someone is poor because they choose not to work or because of other unrepented sin, they don’t need handouts, they need admonition and accountability. If someone is poor because of someone else’s sin or some catastrophic event, then they need compassion. If someone is poor because of flaws in the economic, political or social system, then what they need is justice.
I know that many people think of the word ‘justice’ only in terms of the definition “the administering of deserved punishment or reward.” That’s not what I’m talking about. What I mean is “conformity to moral rightness in action or attitude.” And I’m not talking about it only in terms of the actions or attitudes of individual people, but of entire systems. Sometimes the same flaws in the system that make it impossible for the poor to get out of poverty give the wealthy an advantage to gain more wealth. This is not right. This is not how God intends for His people to live. When I talk about social justice I am not talking about punishing any one. I am talking about taking an honest look at the flaws in our system that help the rich get richer at the expense of the poor and trying to conform that system to a closer idea of how God intends His people to live. The Bible has a lot to say about that, and I hope our discussion gets us into some of those passages. I’m not claiming I have the answers, or that I know exactly how to apply these passages. Finding those answers seems extremely complicated to me, but it also seems extremely important, so I want to wrestle with it and figure out what I can do.
Do you agree that there are flaws in our system that make it very difficult, if not impossible, for some poor people to get out of poverty? Do you understand what I mean by social justice? Do you think this is something Christians should be wrestling with?
Wednesday, September 23, 2009
Social Justice
Hi Mindy:
You made a leap of logic to assume I believe "all (or most)" poor people are that way because they don't want to work. In order to do that, you have to paint the apostle Paul with the same brush. I don't think that way, and I don't interpret his remarks that way either. However, why would the apostle insert those sentences in his letters if there weren't expectations of a free lunch among at least some of the faithful? I know, it's a hard thing, and you won't hear a sermon on it in 21st century America, given the entitlement and politically correct atmosphere we live in.
You have described well in your third paragraph how many of the poor have gotten that way, and I agree. I'd like to focus on your sentence, "And some are poor because of injustices in our economic, political or social systems." That is the mantra of the Social Justice crowd such as John Rawls, the Green Party, and others. They do not like capitalism, don't like communism, but don't rule out redistribution of wealth in between. Does that describe you, or are you somewhere else?
Love,
Dad
You made a leap of logic to assume I believe "all (or most)" poor people are that way because they don't want to work. In order to do that, you have to paint the apostle Paul with the same brush. I don't think that way, and I don't interpret his remarks that way either. However, why would the apostle insert those sentences in his letters if there weren't expectations of a free lunch among at least some of the faithful? I know, it's a hard thing, and you won't hear a sermon on it in 21st century America, given the entitlement and politically correct atmosphere we live in.
You have described well in your third paragraph how many of the poor have gotten that way, and I agree. I'd like to focus on your sentence, "And some are poor because of injustices in our economic, political or social systems." That is the mantra of the Social Justice crowd such as John Rawls, the Green Party, and others. They do not like capitalism, don't like communism, but don't rule out redistribution of wealth in between. Does that describe you, or are you somewhere else?
Love,
Dad
Tuesday, September 22, 2009
Reasons for Poverty
Dad,
You said that this blog has helped you learn a bit about me, but much of it you already knew. I’m afraid I don’t agree. I don’t think you’ve understood what I’ve been trying to say, perhaps because I haven’t been doing a good job of clearly communicating my beliefs.
Many of your comments and the two passages you quoted in your last post lead me to believe that you think that all (or most?) poor people in this country are poor because they don’t want to work. Please correct me if I have misinterpreted your comments.
What I have been trying to point out is that, while idleness certainly is the reason why some people in this country are poor, that is not the case for many, many other people. Some people are poor because of bad decisions they made in the past, some because someone sinned against them, some because catastrophic circumstances have left them without the basic needs for survival. And some are poor because of injustices in our economic, political or social systems. Most likely it is a combination of several of those reasons. Do you agree with this? I really want to continue this conversation, but I don’t know if we can go much further until I understand your beliefs on the reasons for poverty in America.
Mindy
You said that this blog has helped you learn a bit about me, but much of it you already knew. I’m afraid I don’t agree. I don’t think you’ve understood what I’ve been trying to say, perhaps because I haven’t been doing a good job of clearly communicating my beliefs.
Many of your comments and the two passages you quoted in your last post lead me to believe that you think that all (or most?) poor people in this country are poor because they don’t want to work. Please correct me if I have misinterpreted your comments.
What I have been trying to point out is that, while idleness certainly is the reason why some people in this country are poor, that is not the case for many, many other people. Some people are poor because of bad decisions they made in the past, some because someone sinned against them, some because catastrophic circumstances have left them without the basic needs for survival. And some are poor because of injustices in our economic, political or social systems. Most likely it is a combination of several of those reasons. Do you agree with this? I really want to continue this conversation, but I don’t know if we can go much further until I understand your beliefs on the reasons for poverty in America.
Mindy
Monday, September 21, 2009
Justice
Dear Mindy:
Goodness but it's been (too) long since I've had time to spend on the blog, but that doesn't mean I haven't been thinking about the issues. I do have to confess I am not optimistic about the direction of the blog. My original thoughts about this to myself have come true, i.e., we both are what we are. At least I know a bit more about you, but most of it I already knew. As such, it seems best to just address the issue foremost in your mind, that being justice. This is as applied to the Health Care debate, which is where it came up. Using the Bible as our source, the following exhortations come to mind:
"If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat."
"If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse that an unbeliever."
That is the bible's version of economic justice, not mine. These are a long way from "who pays for the health care of my family?" The bible of course, in the nearly 200 verses about the poor, exhorts us to not persecute not vex the poor, to be advocates for them and to help them. Nowhere does it suggest we pay his bills for him. It also speaks loudly about how we are to have compassion on the less fortunate. Doing that is the Lord's command. He does not suggest the State conficated your wealth to do it on your behalf. That would gut the opportunity for us to do it out of a heart of compassion.
As you have self described yourself as being in the information gathering stage, why not read a little Karl Marx, or Dostoyevski's "Grand Inquisitor", or a little de Toqueville, or Frederick Bastiat, or Plato's Republic. Maybe you have done this already. If not, it can add to the opinions of NPR and Twitter, and rest on some of the wisdom of those who have been there and seen it. As you may have heard, Irving Kristol passed away Friday 09/18. He was known as the "Godfather of Neoconservatism." Jewish, of course, but nowhere have I read that he became a follower of Jesus. Nevertheless, he made the intellectual circuit in his life from athiest to Trotskyist to Socialist to moderate to conservative, and many believe set the intellectual table for the Reagan presidency. I am always awed by the pragmatism of Jews. Here is a comment that would be pertinent to our debate. "It's not enough just to have a sense of what's right and what's wrong, you also have to have a sense of how the world works."
God Bless You,
Dad
Goodness but it's been (too) long since I've had time to spend on the blog, but that doesn't mean I haven't been thinking about the issues. I do have to confess I am not optimistic about the direction of the blog. My original thoughts about this to myself have come true, i.e., we both are what we are. At least I know a bit more about you, but most of it I already knew. As such, it seems best to just address the issue foremost in your mind, that being justice. This is as applied to the Health Care debate, which is where it came up. Using the Bible as our source, the following exhortations come to mind:
"If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat."
"If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse that an unbeliever."
That is the bible's version of economic justice, not mine. These are a long way from "who pays for the health care of my family?" The bible of course, in the nearly 200 verses about the poor, exhorts us to not persecute not vex the poor, to be advocates for them and to help them. Nowhere does it suggest we pay his bills for him. It also speaks loudly about how we are to have compassion on the less fortunate. Doing that is the Lord's command. He does not suggest the State conficated your wealth to do it on your behalf. That would gut the opportunity for us to do it out of a heart of compassion.
As you have self described yourself as being in the information gathering stage, why not read a little Karl Marx, or Dostoyevski's "Grand Inquisitor", or a little de Toqueville, or Frederick Bastiat, or Plato's Republic. Maybe you have done this already. If not, it can add to the opinions of NPR and Twitter, and rest on some of the wisdom of those who have been there and seen it. As you may have heard, Irving Kristol passed away Friday 09/18. He was known as the "Godfather of Neoconservatism." Jewish, of course, but nowhere have I read that he became a follower of Jesus. Nevertheless, he made the intellectual circuit in his life from athiest to Trotskyist to Socialist to moderate to conservative, and many believe set the intellectual table for the Reagan presidency. I am always awed by the pragmatism of Jews. Here is a comment that would be pertinent to our debate. "It's not enough just to have a sense of what's right and what's wrong, you also have to have a sense of how the world works."
God Bless You,
Dad
Mindy's Response to We the People Are Coming
This letter may represent the consensus of many people in this country, but it doesn’t represent all, and possibly not even a majority. The letter may be useful in that it helps me understand the beliefs that some people have about what is currently going on in our government, but it is not helpful to me as I try to make decisions about how I will participate in our government as a citizen.
For one thing, I’m not sure about the truth of some of her claims. I will point out just two of them, the ones about ACORN. The letter’s author claims that ACORN will be “in charge of our 2010 census” and that “mandatory escrow fees” are contributed to them “every time on every real estate deal that closes.” I don’t know where that second accusation comes from, but here are two links to FactCheck.org that refute the first one, and possibly the second one. If you have evidence that supports those claims, please send them on. My point here, however, is not to get into a discussion about the merits or evils of ACORN—I don’t know much about the organization, except that it has gotten a lot of attention on conservative news programs. My point is simply that a letter with this kind of misinformation in it is not helpful. Even if some of the letter writer’s points have merit, I am prone to distrust what she has to say because the letter includes such clear untruths.
Also, the general tone of the letter is rather presumptuous. She claims to be speaking for “patriotic Americans” and “we, the people”. But
I’m not sure exactly what the author’s intentions were in writing this letter. Her goal, apparently, is to encourage people to vote the current administration and Congress out of office. That is all well and good. But she is trying to do this by implying that she represents all “patriotic” Americans, and by making several accusations against current government policy which may or may not be true. What if, instead, she were to seek out those Americans with whom she disagrees to have an honest and humble conversation? It would be much more helpful to me if this woman, and others like her, would find someone who sees this situation differently and listen to them with a real desire for understanding to find out why they think differently, and then humbly explain their own views. That, of course, is the reason I wanted to start this blog.
So, let’s continue the conversation…
Forwarded Email: We, the People, Are coming
Dad, Here is the email Mom sent me--I'm guessing you already saw it.
Mindy
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The only point I would add is, "don't take away our right and privilege to worship, pray and praise God." This country was founded on freedoms and freedom of religion is one of those choices! It is in God whom we trust.
~ E
*************************************************************************************************
Subject: We, the People, Are coming!!!
This is a little long but WOW did this lady get the message right! I couldn't have said it better!!
The following letter is rapidly circulating around the country. Americans everywhere identify with this 53-year -old woman. She has given us a voice. (Her letter was read on the Glenn Beck show.) Once you read this, you will want to forward it to all of your friends...
GLENN BECK: I got a letter from a woman in Arizona . She writes an open letter to our nation's leadership:
I'm a home grown American citizen, 53, registered Democrat all my life. Before the last presidential election I registered as a Republican because I no longer felt the Democratic Party represents my views or works to pursue issues important to me. Now I no longer feel the Republican Party represents my views or works to pursue issues important to me. The fact is I no longer feel any political party or representative in Washington represents my views or works to pursue the issues important to me. There must be someone. Please tell me who you are . Please stand up and tell me that you are there and that you're willing to fight for our Constitution as it was written. Please stand up now. You might ask yourself what my views and issues are that I would horribly feel so disenfranchised by both major political parties.. What kind of nut job am I? Will you please tell me?
Well, these are briefly my views and issues for which I seek representation:
One, illegal immigration. I want you to stop coddling illegal immigrants and secure our borders. Close the underground tunnels. Stop the violence and the trafficking in drugs and people. No amnesty, not again. Been there, done that, no resolution. P.S., I'm not a racist. This isn't to be confused with legal immigration.
Two, the TARP bill, I want it repealed and I want no further funding supplied to it. We told you no, but you did it anyway.. I want the remaining unfunded 95% repealed. Freeze, and repealed.
Three: Czars, I want the circumvention of our checks and balances stopped immediately. Fire the czars. No more czars. Government officials answer to the process, not to the president. Stop trampling on our Constitution and honor it.
Four, cap and trade. The debate on global warming is not over. There is more to say, discuss, and investigate.
Five, universal healthcare. I will not be rushed into another expensive decision. Don't you dare try to pass this in the middle of the night and then go on break. Slow down!
Six, growing government control. I want states rights and sovereignty fully restored. I want less government in my life, not more. Shrink it down. Mind your own business. You have enough to take care of with your real obligations. Why don't you start there.
Seven, ACORN. I do not want ACORN and its affiliates in charge of our 2010 census. I want them investigated. I also do not want mandatory escrow fees contributed to them every time on every real estate deal that closes. Stop the funding to ACORN and its affiliates pending impartial audits and investigations. I do not trust them with taking the census over with our taxpayer money. I don't trust them with our taxpayer money. Face up to the allegations against them and get it resolved before taxpayers get any more involved with them. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, hello. Stop protecting you! r political buddies. You work for us, the people.. Investigate.
Eight, redistribution of wealth. No, no, no. I work for my money. It is mine. I have always worked for people with more money than I have because they gave me jobs. That is the only redistribution of wealth that I will support. I never got a job from a poor person. Why do you want me to hate my employers? Why -- what do you have against businesses and shareholders making a profit?
Nine, charitable contributions. Although I never got a job from a poor person, I have helped many in need. Charity belongs in our local communities, where we know our needs best and can use our local talent and our local resources. Butt out, please. We want to do it ourselves.
Ten, corporate bailouts. Knock it off. Sink or swim like the rest of us. If there are hard times ahead, we'll be better off just getting into it and letting the strong survive. Quick and painful. Have you ever ripped off a Band-Aid? We will pull together. Great things happen in America under great hardship. Give us the chance to innovate. We cannot disappoint you more than you have disappointed us.
Eleven, transparency and accountability. How about it? No, really, how about it? Let's have it. Let's say we give the buzzwords a rest and have some straight honest talk. Please try -- please stop manipulating and trying to appease me with clever wording. I am not the idiot you obviously take me for. Stop sneaking around and meeting in back rooms making deals with your friends. It will only be a prelude to your criminal investigation. Stop hiding things from me.
Twelve, unprecedented quick spending.. Stop it now.
Take a breath. Listen to the people. Let's just slow down and get some input from some nonpoliticians on the subject. Stop making everything an emergency. Stop speed reading our bills into law. I am not an activist. I am not a community organizer.. Nor am I a terrorist, a militant or a violent person. I am a parent and a grandparent. I work. I'm busy. I'm busy. I am busy, and I am tired. I thought we elected competent people to take care of the business of government so that we could work, raise our families, pay our bills, have a little recreation, complain about taxes, endure our hardships, pursue our personal goals, cut our lawn, wash our cars on the weekends and be responsible contributing members of society and teach our children to be the same all while living in the home of the free and land of the brave! .
I entrusted you with upholding the Constitution. I believed in the checks and balances to keep from getting far off course. What happened? You are very far off course. Do you really think I find humor in the hiring of a speed reader to unintelligently ramble all through a bill that you signed into law without knowing what it contained? I do not. It is a mockery of the responsibility I have entrusted to you. It is a slap in the face. I am not laughing at your arrogance. Why is it that I feel as if you would not trust me to make a single decision about my own life and how I would live it but you should expect that I should trust you with the debt that you have laid on all of us and our children. We did not want the TARP bill. We said no. We would repeal it if we could. I am sure that we still! cannot. There is such urgency and recklessness in all of the recent spending.
From my perspective, it seems that all of you have gone insane. I also know that I am far from alone in these feelings. Do you honestly feel that your current pursuits have merit to patriotic Americans? We want it to stop. We want to put the brakes on everything that is being rushed by us and forced upon us. We want our voice back. You have forced us to put our lives on hold to straighten out the mess that you are making. We will have to give up our vacations, our time spent with our children, any relaxation time we may have had and money we cannot afford to spend on you, to bring our concerns to Washington . Our president often knows all the right buzzwords like 'unsustainable'. Well, no kidding. How many tens of thousands of dollars did the focus group cost to come up with that word? We don't want your over priced words. Sto! p treating us like we're morons.
We want all of you to stop focusing on your reelection and do the job we want done, not the job you want done or the job your party wants done. You work for us and at this rate I guarantee you not for long because we are coming. We will be heard and we will be represented. You think we're so busy with our lives that we will never come for you? We are the formerly silent majority, all of us who quietly work , pay taxes, obey the law, vote, save money, keep our noses to the grindstone and we are now looking up at you. You have awakened us, the patriotic spirit so strong and so powerful that it had been sleeping too long. You have pushed us too far. Our numbers are great. They may surprise you. For every one of us who will be there, there will be hundreds more that could not come. Unlike you, we have their trust. We will represen! t them honestly, rest assured.. They will be at the polls on voting day to usher you out of office. We have cancelled vacations. We will use our last few dollars saved. We will find the representation among us and a grassroots campaign will flourish. We didn't ask for this fight. But the gloves are coming off. We do not come in violence, but we are angry. You will represent us or you will be replaced with someone who will. There are candidates among us who will rise like a Phoenix from the ashes that you have made of our constitution.
Democrat, Republican, independent, libertarian. Understand this. We don't care. Political parties are meaningless to us. Patriotic Americans are willing to do right by us and our Constitution and that is all that matters to us now. We are going to fire all of you who abuse power and seek more.. It is not your power. It is ours and we want it back.. We entrusted you with it and you abused it. You are dishonorable. You are dishonest. As Americans we are ashamed of you. You have brought shame to us. If you are not representing the wants and needs of your constituency loudly and consistently, in spite of the objections of your party, you will be fired. Did you hear? We no longer care about your political parties. You need to be loyal to us, not to them. Because when we fire you, th! ey will not save you. If you do or can represent me, my issues, my views, please stand up. Make your identity known. You need to make some noise about it. Speak up. I need to know who you are. If you do not speak up, you will be herded out with the rest of the sheep and we will replace the whole damn congress if need be one by one. We are coming. Are we coming for you? Who do you represent? What do you represent? Listen. Because we are coming. We the people are coming, and we vote !!
PLEASE, SEND TO AS MANY FRIENDS, RELATIVES, AND ACQUAINTANCES AS YOU CAN.
OUR VOTE IS VERY, VERY, IMPORTANT - AND IT MUST BE HEARD, LOUD AND CLEAR.
Mindy
*************************************************************************************************
The only point I would add is, "don't take away our right and privilege to worship, pray and praise God." This country was founded on freedoms and freedom of religion is one of those choices! It is in God whom we trust.
~ E
*************************************************************************************************
Subject: We, the People, Are coming!!!
This is a little long but WOW did this lady get the message right! I couldn't have said it better!!
The following letter is rapidly circulating around the country. Americans everywhere identify with this 53-year -old woman. She has given us a voice. (Her letter was read on the Glenn Beck show.) Once you read this, you will want to forward it to all of your friends...
GLENN BECK: I got a letter from a woman in Arizona . She writes an open letter to our nation's leadership:
I'm a home grown American citizen, 53, registered Democrat all my life. Before the last presidential election I registered as a Republican because I no longer felt the Democratic Party represents my views or works to pursue issues important to me. Now I no longer feel the Republican Party represents my views or works to pursue issues important to me. The fact is I no longer feel any political party or representative in Washington represents my views or works to pursue the issues important to me. There must be someone. Please tell me who you are . Please stand up and tell me that you are there and that you're willing to fight for our Constitution as it was written. Please stand up now. You might ask yourself what my views and issues are that I would horribly feel so disenfranchised by both major political parties.. What kind of nut job am I? Will you please tell me?
Well, these are briefly my views and issues for which I seek representation:
One, illegal immigration. I want you to stop coddling illegal immigrants and secure our borders. Close the underground tunnels. Stop the violence and the trafficking in drugs and people. No amnesty, not again. Been there, done that, no resolution. P.S., I'm not a racist. This isn't to be confused with legal immigration.
Two, the TARP bill, I want it repealed and I want no further funding supplied to it. We told you no, but you did it anyway.. I want the remaining unfunded 95% repealed. Freeze, and repealed.
Three: Czars, I want the circumvention of our checks and balances stopped immediately. Fire the czars. No more czars. Government officials answer to the process, not to the president. Stop trampling on our Constitution and honor it.
Four, cap and trade. The debate on global warming is not over. There is more to say, discuss, and investigate.
Five, universal healthcare. I will not be rushed into another expensive decision. Don't you dare try to pass this in the middle of the night and then go on break. Slow down!
Six, growing government control. I want states rights and sovereignty fully restored. I want less government in my life, not more. Shrink it down. Mind your own business. You have enough to take care of with your real obligations. Why don't you start there.
Seven, ACORN. I do not want ACORN and its affiliates in charge of our 2010 census. I want them investigated. I also do not want mandatory escrow fees contributed to them every time on every real estate deal that closes. Stop the funding to ACORN and its affiliates pending impartial audits and investigations. I do not trust them with taking the census over with our taxpayer money. I don't trust them with our taxpayer money. Face up to the allegations against them and get it resolved before taxpayers get any more involved with them. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, hello. Stop protecting you! r political buddies. You work for us, the people.. Investigate.
Eight, redistribution of wealth. No, no, no. I work for my money. It is mine. I have always worked for people with more money than I have because they gave me jobs. That is the only redistribution of wealth that I will support. I never got a job from a poor person. Why do you want me to hate my employers? Why -- what do you have against businesses and shareholders making a profit?
Nine, charitable contributions. Although I never got a job from a poor person, I have helped many in need. Charity belongs in our local communities, where we know our needs best and can use our local talent and our local resources. Butt out, please. We want to do it ourselves.
Ten, corporate bailouts. Knock it off. Sink or swim like the rest of us. If there are hard times ahead, we'll be better off just getting into it and letting the strong survive. Quick and painful. Have you ever ripped off a Band-Aid? We will pull together. Great things happen in America under great hardship. Give us the chance to innovate. We cannot disappoint you more than you have disappointed us.
Eleven, transparency and accountability. How about it? No, really, how about it? Let's have it. Let's say we give the buzzwords a rest and have some straight honest talk. Please try -- please stop manipulating and trying to appease me with clever wording. I am not the idiot you obviously take me for. Stop sneaking around and meeting in back rooms making deals with your friends. It will only be a prelude to your criminal investigation. Stop hiding things from me.
Twelve, unprecedented quick spending.. Stop it now.
Take a breath. Listen to the people. Let's just slow down and get some input from some nonpoliticians on the subject. Stop making everything an emergency. Stop speed reading our bills into law. I am not an activist. I am not a community organizer.. Nor am I a terrorist, a militant or a violent person. I am a parent and a grandparent. I work. I'm busy. I'm busy. I am busy, and I am tired. I thought we elected competent people to take care of the business of government so that we could work, raise our families, pay our bills, have a little recreation, complain about taxes, endure our hardships, pursue our personal goals, cut our lawn, wash our cars on the weekends and be responsible contributing members of society and teach our children to be the same all while living in the home of the free and land of the brave! .
I entrusted you with upholding the Constitution. I believed in the checks and balances to keep from getting far off course. What happened? You are very far off course. Do you really think I find humor in the hiring of a speed reader to unintelligently ramble all through a bill that you signed into law without knowing what it contained? I do not. It is a mockery of the responsibility I have entrusted to you. It is a slap in the face. I am not laughing at your arrogance. Why is it that I feel as if you would not trust me to make a single decision about my own life and how I would live it but you should expect that I should trust you with the debt that you have laid on all of us and our children. We did not want the TARP bill. We said no. We would repeal it if we could. I am sure that we still! cannot. There is such urgency and recklessness in all of the recent spending.
From my perspective, it seems that all of you have gone insane. I also know that I am far from alone in these feelings. Do you honestly feel that your current pursuits have merit to patriotic Americans? We want it to stop. We want to put the brakes on everything that is being rushed by us and forced upon us. We want our voice back. You have forced us to put our lives on hold to straighten out the mess that you are making. We will have to give up our vacations, our time spent with our children, any relaxation time we may have had and money we cannot afford to spend on you, to bring our concerns to Washington . Our president often knows all the right buzzwords like 'unsustainable'. Well, no kidding. How many tens of thousands of dollars did the focus group cost to come up with that word? We don't want your over priced words. Sto! p treating us like we're morons.
We want all of you to stop focusing on your reelection and do the job we want done, not the job you want done or the job your party wants done. You work for us and at this rate I guarantee you not for long because we are coming. We will be heard and we will be represented. You think we're so busy with our lives that we will never come for you? We are the formerly silent majority, all of us who quietly work , pay taxes, obey the law, vote, save money, keep our noses to the grindstone and we are now looking up at you. You have awakened us, the patriotic spirit so strong and so powerful that it had been sleeping too long. You have pushed us too far. Our numbers are great. They may surprise you. For every one of us who will be there, there will be hundreds more that could not come. Unlike you, we have their trust. We will represen! t them honestly, rest assured.. They will be at the polls on voting day to usher you out of office. We have cancelled vacations. We will use our last few dollars saved. We will find the representation among us and a grassroots campaign will flourish. We didn't ask for this fight. But the gloves are coming off. We do not come in violence, but we are angry. You will represent us or you will be replaced with someone who will. There are candidates among us who will rise like a Phoenix from the ashes that you have made of our constitution.
Democrat, Republican, independent, libertarian. Understand this. We don't care. Political parties are meaningless to us. Patriotic Americans are willing to do right by us and our Constitution and that is all that matters to us now. We are going to fire all of you who abuse power and seek more.. It is not your power. It is ours and we want it back.. We entrusted you with it and you abused it. You are dishonorable. You are dishonest. As Americans we are ashamed of you. You have brought shame to us. If you are not representing the wants and needs of your constituency loudly and consistently, in spite of the objections of your party, you will be fired. Did you hear? We no longer care about your political parties. You need to be loyal to us, not to them. Because when we fire you, th! ey will not save you. If you do or can represent me, my issues, my views, please stand up. Make your identity known. You need to make some noise about it. Speak up. I need to know who you are. If you do not speak up, you will be herded out with the rest of the sheep and we will replace the whole damn congress if need be one by one. We are coming. Are we coming for you? Who do you represent? What do you represent? Listen. Because we are coming. We the people are coming, and we vote !!
PLEASE, SEND TO AS MANY FRIENDS, RELATIVES, AND ACQUAINTANCES AS YOU CAN.
OUR VOTE IS VERY, VERY, IMPORTANT - AND IT MUST BE HEARD, LOUD AND CLEAR.
Wednesday, September 9, 2009
Two Questions
Dad,
I want to say a little bit about President Obama’s speech tonight, but before I do I want to address your response to my last post. But, before I do that, I want to go back to your Chinese Proverb’s #6 I am statement: I am who I think you think I am.
I want to say a little bit about President Obama’s speech tonight, but before I do I want to address your response to my last post. But, before I do that, I want to go back to your Chinese Proverb’s #6 I am statement: I am who I think you think I am.
It seems from your responses to me that you assume that I support socialized medicine, or at least the “public option” that has been proposed. But, I have never defended either of these ideas. I feel strongly that health care reform should happen, and I believe that everyone in this country should have access to affordable health care, but, as I have said before, I don’t know what the answer is. I know that a lot of people are adamantly saying that socialized medicine is the answer. While I have not strongly opposed that idea, I have not strongly supported it either. I’m still in the information-gathering stage.
My point with the boat analogy was to say that health care is not just a compassion issue but is also a justice issue, and I believe that all members of a community have some responsibility to make things right when injustice has been done, not just those who perpetrated the injustice. I believe that the profit-motive can and has contributed to injustice in our health care system. Please don’t interpret this to mean that I believe it is wrong to make a profit. I have not said that capitalism is evil, but as I’ve said before, it is an imperfect system that is implemented by sinful people. I don’t believe that the system itself will just work out those kinks. It seems like someone is going to have to step in, and that seems like a reasonable role of government. Yes, the government is also an imperfect system implemented by sinful people. I don’t know how to get around this. I am thankful that we live in a democratic society where we can vote for leaders who have term limits.
Finally, The President’s speech: This is the first time in these last few months that I have actually heard him speaking on the issue, since I’ve been relying mostly on NPR, WCRF and the people I follow in Twitter for my information lately. Based on all of that, I was kind of expecting to be less impressed with his speech than I was. I’ve been frustrated lately that the public option had become the main focus of the debate, and there seems to have been a lack of willingness to compromise or work with Republicans on solutions. (My friend Laura posted this op-ed by David Brooks that helped me put my finger on why I wasn’t jumping on the public option bandwagon.)
Anyway, I thought what President Obama proposed sounded pretty good. I wish he had sounded more committed to tort reform, and I wish he had more clearly addressed what David Brooks calls “perverse incentives”. I still wonder if what he is proposing will, as Brooks suggests, simply bring more people into in a system that doesn’t work. But it seems like a good start. I’m glad that the ball is rolling to change things.
Did you have a chance to watch or listen to the speech? Based on the image of Obama that has been created in the conservative media, I wonder if it would have been possible for you to agree with anything he said. I appreciate that you were able to reconsider your acceptance of Glenn Beck’s claim that Obama is building a private national security force and concede that perhaps Beck had taken some of Obama’s statements out of context. It seems that the conservative media has spent at least the last year and a half creating an effigy of Obama that many people have come to accept as truth. I get the impression that your opinions about Obama and health care reform, as well as the opinions of many conservative Christians, have been greatly influenced by unfair misrepresentations.
To sum up, here are two specific questions that I’d appreciate hearing your thoughts on:
Do you see the health care issue as an issue of justice?
What are your thoughts on how the conservative media has portrayed Obama, and how has that affected the health care debate?
It was wonderful being with you yesterday for Isaac’s finalization. I’m looking forward to the next time we’re together.
Mindy
Sunday, September 6, 2009
The Human Condition
Hi Mindy:
The item of discussion at hand is whether compassion (esp. for the poor) should be administered voluntarily, as happens in a free society, or under compulsion by a third party, i.e. the State who confiscates resources to hand out as IT sees fit. Taking your last communication from the last paragraph first, we are agreeing that voluntarism is better. However you somehow made the need for justice into a segue into the pitfalls of capitalism. Interestingly, you used as your example the case where a transaction was made with goods (the boat) that were acquired (stolen) in an usavory way, and whether your responsibility as the buyer extends backward to the person from whom the boat was stolen in the first place. Or to put it in your context, isn't this another indictment of the free enterprise/capitalistic system?
Ironically, it is the American free enterprise system that has put safeguards in place to protect against that sort of thing. We have elaborate product and service guarantees so that the buyer gets what they paid for. This is borne out of our Business Law that was originally taught from Blackstone's commentaries in our law schools. He was a believer. Although now dead, there is a Christian legal society with his name on it. Anyway, in our system, the seller covenants that the product is what he says it is, and if not, your money is returned and he agrees to deal with the problem. Since the seller is the guarantor, he is on the hook for hot or inferior goods. If your conscience still bothers you, you can always intervene in his pursuit of reparations from his supplier, and offer to pay it yourself. I frankly think that is misplaced and that the Lord wouldn't expect you to use family resources in a matter that is no longer your concern. From what I know of socialism, this paragraph would not be on their screen.
Yes, while our system has been so wildly successful in raising the standard of living of everyone, the largest and most wealthy of American firms have accumulated enough resources to tempt many to get around the system. We lie, we cheat, we steal. No I'm not talking just about business persons. It's all of us. It's the human condition. Are you implying that having the government dispense resources would be corruption free? By the way, buying and selling, bartering, trading have been going on these last 6,000 years. All that time, free enterprise was taking place in some form. Capitalism was too. Whomever had a product to sell or barter, had to have capital to make that product. They were capitalists. To somehow suddenly make the American business system the bogeyman is to face down the most successful generator of wealth for everyone, ever. It became that way because old familiar ways of doing business were done in a framework of constraints put in place by biblical law. It worked. If many have their way, it will become the enemy, not the solution. Too bad. Too bad for all of us, esp the poor.
Blessings,
Dad
PS: The Plain Dealer today, Sunday Sept 6th, had a great section with pieces from several perspectives on pages G3, G5. Did you notice that the American Conference of Catholic Bishops believe that health care is a "right"?
The item of discussion at hand is whether compassion (esp. for the poor) should be administered voluntarily, as happens in a free society, or under compulsion by a third party, i.e. the State who confiscates resources to hand out as IT sees fit. Taking your last communication from the last paragraph first, we are agreeing that voluntarism is better. However you somehow made the need for justice into a segue into the pitfalls of capitalism. Interestingly, you used as your example the case where a transaction was made with goods (the boat) that were acquired (stolen) in an usavory way, and whether your responsibility as the buyer extends backward to the person from whom the boat was stolen in the first place. Or to put it in your context, isn't this another indictment of the free enterprise/capitalistic system?
Ironically, it is the American free enterprise system that has put safeguards in place to protect against that sort of thing. We have elaborate product and service guarantees so that the buyer gets what they paid for. This is borne out of our Business Law that was originally taught from Blackstone's commentaries in our law schools. He was a believer. Although now dead, there is a Christian legal society with his name on it. Anyway, in our system, the seller covenants that the product is what he says it is, and if not, your money is returned and he agrees to deal with the problem. Since the seller is the guarantor, he is on the hook for hot or inferior goods. If your conscience still bothers you, you can always intervene in his pursuit of reparations from his supplier, and offer to pay it yourself. I frankly think that is misplaced and that the Lord wouldn't expect you to use family resources in a matter that is no longer your concern. From what I know of socialism, this paragraph would not be on their screen.
Yes, while our system has been so wildly successful in raising the standard of living of everyone, the largest and most wealthy of American firms have accumulated enough resources to tempt many to get around the system. We lie, we cheat, we steal. No I'm not talking just about business persons. It's all of us. It's the human condition. Are you implying that having the government dispense resources would be corruption free? By the way, buying and selling, bartering, trading have been going on these last 6,000 years. All that time, free enterprise was taking place in some form. Capitalism was too. Whomever had a product to sell or barter, had to have capital to make that product. They were capitalists. To somehow suddenly make the American business system the bogeyman is to face down the most successful generator of wealth for everyone, ever. It became that way because old familiar ways of doing business were done in a framework of constraints put in place by biblical law. It worked. If many have their way, it will become the enemy, not the solution. Too bad. Too bad for all of us, esp the poor.
Blessings,
Dad
PS: The Plain Dealer today, Sunday Sept 6th, had a great section with pieces from several perspectives on pages G3, G5. Did you notice that the American Conference of Catholic Bishops believe that health care is a "right"?
Friday, September 4, 2009
Compassion and Justice
Dad,
For me, there are two issues here: compassion and justice. Your question, should the delivery of compassion be done voluntarily or should it be forced on someone, only gets at the first issue. If the health care issue was simply a matter of, well, there just happen to be poor people out there who can’t afford health insurance or who can’t afford to go to the doctor, then that would be one thing. But I think it’s more complicated than that.
This is getting to one of the “pitfalls” I see in capitalism. A while back we were discussing capitalism and you posed the following question: Say I buy a boat from someone for $100 and sell the boat to someone else for $120. What’s wrong with that?
For me, there are two issues here: compassion and justice. Your question, should the delivery of compassion be done voluntarily or should it be forced on someone, only gets at the first issue. If the health care issue was simply a matter of, well, there just happen to be poor people out there who can’t afford health insurance or who can’t afford to go to the doctor, then that would be one thing. But I think it’s more complicated than that.
This is getting to one of the “pitfalls” I see in capitalism. A while back we were discussing capitalism and you posed the following question: Say I buy a boat from someone for $100 and sell the boat to someone else for $120. What’s wrong with that?
There may not be anything wrong with that. The fact that I have made a profit of $20 is not a bad thing in itself. But, this assumes that the decision to buy and sell the boat only impacts me, the guy I bought the boat from and the guy I sell it to. Does it matter how the first guy got the boat to begin with?
Let's say I buy a boat from Tom for $100, then sell it to Ellen for $120. I've earned a nice $20, Tom goes out and buys something he needs with the $100, and Ellen was fine with paying $120 for the boat, so everyone's happy. Except, later I find out that Tom actually stole the boat from Bill. I have done nothing wrong in this scenario. But, injustice has been done, and although I did not perpetrate it, I have benefited from it. As a citizen, do I have any responsibility to help make things right for Bill? What about as a Christian? And what would it look like to pursue justice for Bill in this situation? Simply punish Tom? But Bill still doesn’t have his boat. Should Ellen give him the boat back? Should I give him the $20 I earned?
This is just one very simplified scenario, but the questions it raises are very real and very relevant to me, and I honestly don’t know the answers. This kind of thing happens in a system where one of the primary motivations is profit. Sinful people will sometimes lie, cheat and steal to maximize their profit. When they do that, usually someone else is affected by it. How do we deal with the fallout of a system that lends itself to this kind of injustice? Is this where the government should step in? I don’t know. But as a Christian who believes caring for the poor and oppressed is intimately tied up with the gospel and my own relationship to God, I feel that I have to be concerned with pursuing justice for those who have been hurt by injustice, whether it was perpetrated by me or not.
This is why simply giving money to a “compassion ministry” is not enough for me. I could do that, but it seems like those ministries, although they are doing a wonderful and necessary service, are just putting a bandaid on a wound that needs surgery. If someone at this moment doesn’t have clothing or food or medical attention or whatever else they need to survive, then those immediate needs need to be provided for. But someone should also be looking into the deeper issues of why that person needs food or clothing or medical care. Is it simply because they are lazy and don’t want to work for it? Perhaps, sometimes. But could it also be because there is something wrong in our system that is keeping them from being able to provide for themselves?
So, going back to your question: should compassion be given voluntarily or forcibly? It seems obvious compassion is something that should be given freely. But what about the issue of justice? When injustice is done there are those who perpetrated it, those who benefit from it, and those who are hurt by it. Since we live in a community where all of our decisions affect others in the community, I think all three of those people have some responsibility. Figuring out exactly what each of their responsibilities are is the complicated question.
Thursday, September 3, 2009
Convince Me!
My Dear Mindy: Sorry I misinterpreted your statements about knowing everything. I totally relate to your struggle re Romans 7. Like that has happened to me every few minutes for the last 70+ years! I will also grant that Obama may have used military language to describe a civilian initiative. Still, I have to wonder at ANY civilian program that could or should be as large and as well funded as our military. Should we assume he didn't mean that either? Words do matter.
You have implored me to consider what you are actually like, rather that what I think you are like. Well, in my mind, all I have about you is what I think you are like. There is no other for me. My perception of who you are will stay the same until you do or say something to change that. Even so, those perceptions will never truly meet. It's like the Chinese proverb about the seven "I am's":
1) I am
2) I am what I think I am
3) I am what I say I am
4) I am what you think I am
5) I am what you say I am
6) I am what I think you think I am
7) I am what you think I think I am.
The great and funny part is they're all different. Doesn't it blow your mind that number 1 and number 2 are different? However, not to dispare. As we communicate in a trusting atmosphere, the differences narrow. Presumably, number one (1) is the totality of what God knows about me, and I probably don't want to know all that!
Anyway, on to the "convince me" part. I know you are really, passionately after the Truth. I am too. However, for me to continue throwing my ideas at you, hoping something will stick or generate an objection from you, is rather a one way street. That's why I said from the beginning, I can only say the truth as I know it and you can glean from it. You can do the same thing for me. I have already said many things in the first couple blogs and our previous emails that should generate some reaction or assent. Whichever it is doesn't matter to me, however take one issue and come back to me on it. Take a position and see how it feels. For starters, how about the delivery system for compassion. Take from others, or give voluntarily?
Love,
Dad
You have implored me to consider what you are actually like, rather that what I think you are like. Well, in my mind, all I have about you is what I think you are like. There is no other for me. My perception of who you are will stay the same until you do or say something to change that. Even so, those perceptions will never truly meet. It's like the Chinese proverb about the seven "I am's":
1) I am
2) I am what I think I am
3) I am what I say I am
4) I am what you think I am
5) I am what you say I am
6) I am what I think you think I am
7) I am what you think I think I am.
The great and funny part is they're all different. Doesn't it blow your mind that number 1 and number 2 are different? However, not to dispare. As we communicate in a trusting atmosphere, the differences narrow. Presumably, number one (1) is the totality of what God knows about me, and I probably don't want to know all that!
Anyway, on to the "convince me" part. I know you are really, passionately after the Truth. I am too. However, for me to continue throwing my ideas at you, hoping something will stick or generate an objection from you, is rather a one way street. That's why I said from the beginning, I can only say the truth as I know it and you can glean from it. You can do the same thing for me. I have already said many things in the first couple blogs and our previous emails that should generate some reaction or assent. Whichever it is doesn't matter to me, however take one issue and come back to me on it. Take a position and see how it feels. For starters, how about the delivery system for compassion. Take from others, or give voluntarily?
Love,
Dad
Wednesday, September 2, 2009
P.S.
By the way, regarding the Obama civilian army speech:
Reading the little bit highlighted on Beck's program in the context of the rest of the speech leads me to believe Obama was using military language as a figure of speech. His point, I believe, is that we have focused on threats to our country from the outside, but it is just as critical that we focus on what is damaging our country from the inside. The "civilian national security force" he talks about is the 250,000 AmeriCorps volunteers he wants to provide funding for. You can click here to find out more about AmeriCorps and what its volunteers do.
It is unfortunate that Obama chose to use this language as he did, because I can see how someone might read this to mean that establishing a civilian national security force is one among a list of things he is planning to do (expand AmeriCorps, send college graduates to mentor young people, establish an Energy Corps, etc.). But the civilian national security force is not one of the things, it is his figurative description of this army of volunteers he hopes to empower to make a difference in this country.
Reading the little bit highlighted on Beck's program in the context of the rest of the speech leads me to believe Obama was using military language as a figure of speech. His point, I believe, is that we have focused on threats to our country from the outside, but it is just as critical that we focus on what is damaging our country from the inside. The "civilian national security force" he talks about is the 250,000 AmeriCorps volunteers he wants to provide funding for. You can click here to find out more about AmeriCorps and what its volunteers do.
It is unfortunate that Obama chose to use this language as he did, because I can see how someone might read this to mean that establishing a civilian national security force is one among a list of things he is planning to do (expand AmeriCorps, send college graduates to mentor young people, establish an Energy Corps, etc.). But the civilian national security force is not one of the things, it is his figurative description of this army of volunteers he hopes to empower to make a difference in this country.
Titles are hard to come up with for these things....
Dear Dad,
In some ways having this conversation via written “letters” has its benefits: it gives both of us time to compile our thoughts, and can help us discuss very emotionally-charged topics with a bit of a buffer. The downside, however, is that it can be pretty difficult to convey or read the right tone in what is being written.
My confession to thinking I’m right all the time was an honest confession of my own sin and pride. As I get older I am becoming more and more aware of the struggle within myself that Paul describes in Romans 7:14-25. I wanted to make it clear that my real goal here is to understand the truth in these issues. Can I ask, do we share the same goal?
You said you don’t want to convince me of anything, but that’s exactly what I’m asking you to do. If you understand the truth in these matters better than I do (and you very well may!!) then I want you to convince me, because, as I said, my goal is to understand the truth. I’m not sure, though, that you believe me when I say this.
You have called me a liberal—but please don’t make assumptions about me based on your stereotype of liberals. If you are right about these things, I want to know it, but in order for you to convince me you have to understand what I actually believe, and make your arguments based on that, rather than on what you think I believe.
For one thing, what I don’t believe is that capitalism is responsible for all the evils of the day or that socialism is the way out. What I do believe, in that regard, is that capitalism and socialism are both flawed systems that are implemented by sinful people, and because of that there is potential for evil in either system. It seems that the people who defend capitalism the loudest are those who have benefited from it the most. I’m afraid that the fact that those people have benefited from it has caused them to be blind to some of the pitfalls of the system. Capitalism may be very good, but it isn’t perfect, and even if it was, it has been practiced by sinful people. I’m not suggesting that socialism is the way out—what I am asking for, pleading for, really, is that we take a look at the pitfalls of capitalism and see if there is any way it could be done better.
That’s all for now, I think. I’ll write more later…
Mindy
In some ways having this conversation via written “letters” has its benefits: it gives both of us time to compile our thoughts, and can help us discuss very emotionally-charged topics with a bit of a buffer. The downside, however, is that it can be pretty difficult to convey or read the right tone in what is being written.
My confession to thinking I’m right all the time was an honest confession of my own sin and pride. As I get older I am becoming more and more aware of the struggle within myself that Paul describes in Romans 7:14-25. I wanted to make it clear that my real goal here is to understand the truth in these issues. Can I ask, do we share the same goal?
You said you don’t want to convince me of anything, but that’s exactly what I’m asking you to do. If you understand the truth in these matters better than I do (and you very well may!!) then I want you to convince me, because, as I said, my goal is to understand the truth. I’m not sure, though, that you believe me when I say this.
You have called me a liberal—but please don’t make assumptions about me based on your stereotype of liberals. If you are right about these things, I want to know it, but in order for you to convince me you have to understand what I actually believe, and make your arguments based on that, rather than on what you think I believe.
For one thing, what I don’t believe is that capitalism is responsible for all the evils of the day or that socialism is the way out. What I do believe, in that regard, is that capitalism and socialism are both flawed systems that are implemented by sinful people, and because of that there is potential for evil in either system. It seems that the people who defend capitalism the loudest are those who have benefited from it the most. I’m afraid that the fact that those people have benefited from it has caused them to be blind to some of the pitfalls of the system. Capitalism may be very good, but it isn’t perfect, and even if it was, it has been practiced by sinful people. I’m not suggesting that socialism is the way out—what I am asking for, pleading for, really, is that we take a look at the pitfalls of capitalism and see if there is any way it could be done better.
That’s all for now, I think. I’ll write more later…
Mindy
Tuesday, September 1, 2009
Pity The Poor Conservative
Wow, not to waste any time eh? Right off, I'm dealing with someone who confesses to being right all (most) of the time, and has issues with conservative evangelicals, of which, yes, I am one. With that in mind, I will write more to congeal my own thoughts than try to convince you of anything. It's better that way.
First, your including a couple more paragraphs around Obama's quote on the civilian military did nothing to dispel the huge question of: Why? As large, as well funded, as our real military? What's that about. Help me. He wants to save the planet, aka global warming, and restore our place in the world. GW relying on bogus science (I can be specific if you like), and our new apologizer-in-chief, as some on both sides of the aisle call he and Hillary, wanting to restore our standing in the world? Watch what he does, not what he says.
And my question of the day: Why do most liberals assume in a knee jerk sort of way that capitalism is somehow now responsible for the evils of the day, and socialism is the way out? We are asked to ignore history in order to go there, including the most recent 200+ years of our own. No, the bible doesn't contain either word, so we must get the "sense" of meaning from the Scripture. That unfortunately can easily degenerate into a "he said, she said" sort of thing. Not productive between the faithful on each side.
Let's both agree that the Word wants us to be compassionate to the poor. We differ on how to deliver that compassion. Liberals, of which you are one, prefer the financial help to be taken from those that have. Conservatives, of which I am one, prefer that we ALL give out of a heart of compassion. The wealthy have more to give, to be sure, but the Lord was big on the widow's mite. We're all in it, not just those above the average income line.
Love,
Dad
First, your including a couple more paragraphs around Obama's quote on the civilian military did nothing to dispel the huge question of: Why? As large, as well funded, as our real military? What's that about. Help me. He wants to save the planet, aka global warming, and restore our place in the world. GW relying on bogus science (I can be specific if you like), and our new apologizer-in-chief, as some on both sides of the aisle call he and Hillary, wanting to restore our standing in the world? Watch what he does, not what he says.
And my question of the day: Why do most liberals assume in a knee jerk sort of way that capitalism is somehow now responsible for the evils of the day, and socialism is the way out? We are asked to ignore history in order to go there, including the most recent 200+ years of our own. No, the bible doesn't contain either word, so we must get the "sense" of meaning from the Scripture. That unfortunately can easily degenerate into a "he said, she said" sort of thing. Not productive between the faithful on each side.
Let's both agree that the Word wants us to be compassionate to the poor. We differ on how to deliver that compassion. Liberals, of which you are one, prefer the financial help to be taken from those that have. Conservatives, of which I am one, prefer that we ALL give out of a heart of compassion. The wealthy have more to give, to be sure, but the Lord was big on the widow's mite. We're all in it, not just those above the average income line.
Love,
Dad
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