OK, I’m almost ready to begin addressing some of the points you made in your last note. But before I do, I want make three confessions.
First, I have a tendency to think I’m right about most things. The mature, redeemed part of me knows this certainly isn’t true, but I still have that sin nature that would like me to believe that all my opinions are the right ones. I am praying that, as we continue this conversation, God will give me humility. That sinful nature is going to try to make me think that the goal of this discussion is for me to be right. But really, the goal is for me to find truth, and then walk in the truth God reveals. Honestly, that is what I want from this discussion. I feel passionately about issues related to faith and public policy, and I hope that through this discussion God will show me what actions I can take to live out His Good News in this area.
Secondly, I have, as I’m sure you’ve probably noticed, serious issues with Conservative Evangelicals as a group (although, and I’m not totally sure about this, I might be one of them…). I’m going to tend to lump you into this image of Conservative Evangelicals that I have formed in my head, which may or may not be an accurate one. But I do realize that not all Conservative Evangelicals are the same, and many of my stereotypes may not describe you. Please forgive me if I make assumptions about you and your beliefs based on this stereotype. And feel free to point it out (gently, please) if/when that happens.
Thirdly, the reason I have gotten so worked up about this issue is because I passionately believe that there is a strong theme throughout the Bible related to how God identifies himself with the poor and oppressed, and how He expects His people to care for the needy. That being said, I am not currently doing anything to help the poor and needy. We give money to our church, and some of that, I’m sure, goes to ministries serving the poor. But I am not directly connected to any ministries that are fighting poverty, providing health care, or pursuing justice for the oppressed. Like I said, the real goal of this discussion is for me to figure out what is the best way for me, with my unique passions and gifts, to live out what I see in Scripture. If sharing this conversation with others helps someone else figure out that same thing for themselves, then that would be a bonus.
Alright, with that out of the way, I can say that as I sat down to respond to the points in your previous note, I realized that I probably need to divide my response into at least two parts, which I think, for the sake of keeping the posts somewhat short, I will send in separate posts. Those posts will address (but probably not answer) these two questions:
- You’ve made the point that the way to help the poor is not to take from the rich. So, since the Bible is full of commands for God’s people to make sure the poor are taken care of, how do we do that?
- Discussions about public policy these days often come down to capitalism vs. socialism. Why do conservative Christians often imply, or state outright, that capitalism is the God-approved economic system and socialism is evil?
I have things to say on each of these questions, but feel free to answer them before I do. I am bursting with things to say, but let me know if you want me to slow down so you can respond to something before I get going again. I can wait to post again until you've had a chance to, if you want.
Mark told me that he told you today that I am all fired up about this (in a good way). I think I’ve been wanting to have a conversation like this with someone for years. I’m not sure if you knew what you were getting yourself into by agreeing to this! But, again, I really appreciate it.
Mindy
Mindy, it's interesting to me that often in the Bible there are stories of wealthy individuals who were specfically instructed to give their money to the poor, usually as a direct result of meeting Jesus and trying to figure out what following him/becoming his disciple meant in their lives. Some of them didn't do this (Rich young ruler Mark, 10:17-31) and some of them did (Zacchaeus, Luke 19:1-10). It's interesting to me in Zacchaeus' case that his wealth was built dishonestly and at the expense of the poor. I dare say that not all, but a lot of wealth in today's globalized economy is built in this exact same manner - exploiting the poor. So can we make the opposite claim? That the way to make the rich is not to take from the poor?
ReplyDeleteMindy,
ReplyDeleteI think I can identify with all three of your confessions and both of your questions, so I think it’s time I put together a post. My mind is going in a lot of different directions, so we’ll see how it goes.
First off, I am a fairly young man with limited life experience. I don’t have a lot of policy knowledge and haven’t studied a lot of economics over the years. Despite this, I can still get fairly worked up in discussions like these. I’ll try to be on my best behavior.
I’ll start I guess with Capitalism v Socialism. I agree, it seems as though it is taken for granted that socialism is dangerous and to be avoided at all costs. A lot of this probably stems from witnessing failed examples of real-world communism, but I view both capitalism and communism as broken systems, capitalism being maybe less broken (whether just ostensibly or in reality, I’m not sure).
I think that the basic argument for capitalism is that the competition it fosters allows an individual to maximize his or her potential, and that this ends up benefiting all within the system (better products, technological advances, etc). This sounds great in theory, just like communism sounds great in theory. But if I look at my job (engineer at a faucet company), I can see drawbacks to this. Where I work, beyond the different groups working on the quality of the product, there is a large portion of the company working on developing, engineering, and marketing new products. Some of the new product is innovative stuff, but a large portion of it (as I’m sure is the case with our competitors) consists of facelifts to the trim (how the faucets look, not how they operate). The world does not really need this stuff, but we produce it so that we can get a leg up on out-selling our competitors. Faucet styling is by no means valueless, but in my mind, you have a large number of people working on something with marginal benefit all because our economic system compels us to keep pace with what our peers are doing. How else could that time and effort be spent?
Stepping back, this has a greater effect on society at large. When I talk to my father about the different phases of his career, I am struck by how relaxed it sounds like things used to be. As a whole, people put in a lot more hours now, and I think part of it is because having employees put in more time is one way to get an edge in the competitive marketplace. Is the world better off from these extra hours? I personally don’t think so. It is at least safe to say that there is now a greater tendency towards “workaholism”.
Overall, my impression is that under capitalism, the dollar is king, and the hidden hand does not care if people are hurt in pursuit of it.
So, circling back to healthcare, I would say I am generally pro-reform in the sense that I don’t think the solution is to allow the free market to work its magic. Does a nation’s prosperity really raise all boats? I have read numerous places that when the economy boomed in the 80s, it in reality led to the most aggressive widening in the gap between rich and poor. The real wages of lower income workers did not improve during this period.
I think the opposition to anything resembling socialism is partly rooted in our identity of (I am generalizing) a nation of independent pioneers. We value liberty very highly and have innate twinges of distrust towards the government. But health care reform would not necessarily make us communists. There is much anecdotal evidence on the topic of waiting periods for care in more socialized systems, and I think it is a real factor, but it’s also true that we spend more than other nations to maintain our healthcare system. I think it is worth objectively looking at the different approaches out there in order to improve our own, even if that involves a higher level of involvement from the government.
I think at the root of it all, there is fear that a revamped healthcare system would not yield the benefits that are currently afforded to those with more money. If I got sick, would I lose my place in line to someone I’d be standing ahead of under the current system? I have not been faced with that kind of situation in my life, but I think that is how my mind would reflexively react, when in truth, where I am today is just as much a result of my environment as any specific actions I have taken.
ReplyDeleteSomething I have been pondering lately is the impact I can have on the world around me. Regarding something as immense as healthcare, is there much I can do to help? Like Mindy said, I can make donations or give to my church. But even if the Church were operating 100% as it should, would that ensure that the sick who cannot afford care are cared for? I understand the sentiment that covering the poor (through taxation) at the expense of the middle and upper classes would not be fair. It isn’t fair, in the Webster's understanding of the word. But we as Christians should not be about fair, we should be about grace. Which doesn’t necessarily mean that the government needs to be brought in, but a huge portion of our population feels that the government should play a role in limiting and/or ending abortion. To me, this seems like a similar thing. It is a government “by the people, for the people” and can be used to improve the lives of its citizens.
When I hear people talk of the generosity of our nation, and then I am presented with facts about the shortcomings of our healthcare system, I see a gap. One could argue that generosity shouldn’t be mandated, and that does make sense. But is that our genuine problem with the concept of this legislation, or do we just resent being called to a greater spirit of giving? As children of a loving Creator, we have been given everything we have, and the gospel issues a challenging call. We are to consider others above ourselves. What we have is not ours (the vineyard worker parable in Matthew 20 strikes me as relevant). Considering all this, I find it odd that we recoil so strongly when there is a possibility that some money may be taken from us to be used to care for others (there are many ins-and-outs to this legislation, but I feel that the balance of the vitriol is directed at the general notion of universal care itself). I realize that it’s much more complicated than this, and that there are different ways that Jesus’ teachings could be applied to this situation, but for me it’s been worth thinking about.
Sorry this post got so long and loopy. I fully accept that if I were in a real argument about this issue, my opponent would soon be running circles around me, but these are just my thoughts at the moment. And I appreciate the existence of this blog, which seems to be operating at a much lower tenor than those town-hall meetings...